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 Tennessee Walking Horse Investigation Exposes Cruelty |
rivera
Dabei seit: 07.10.2007
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this is really unbelievable. either she is deaf, dumb and blind or she is playing poker with the possibilities that the official are still on the side of the abusers AND say so too.
kill the messenger for the bad news or what?
TWH is not my breed, so I dont follow the news about them closely. The number 8 out of 10 "trainer of the year" in the last 10 years already convicted for soring is very telling.
what about the numbers you are hinting at?
__________________
Mangalarga Marchadores - Gangpferdevergnügen ohne Grenzen.
Meine Homepage:
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04.06.2012 22:44 |
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Topsy
unregistriert
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Ja, ich finde es auch schrecklich, wenn mit TWHs gleich die fetten Klötze assoziiert werden. Die Härte war ja auch mein Pferdezahnarzt letzlich, der gesagt hat: ah, das ist ein TWH? Aber brauchen die nicht besondere (Huf)Beschläge?
Und ich: oh nein, um Gotteswillen, das brauchen sie nicht!
Also, ist doch unglaublich. Da fangen die Leute sich an zu wundern (und das hier ist ein Tierarzt!), wenn unsere TWHs in Europa mit ganz normalen Hufeisen beschlagen sind und nicht irgendetwas Absonderliches am Huf haben! Das ist doch echt verkehrte Welt.....
Apropos Sponsor: anscheinend hat ja Pepsi eine Rückzieher gemacht, aber dafür ist Coke als Sponsor eingesprungen... Gar nicht gut....
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04.06.2012 23:27 |
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Oscar 
Absetzer
Dabei seit: 15.08.2008
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Themenstarter 
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About those numbers... the industry is an old boys network keeping soring alive.
Just some quotes:
| Zitat: |
| While the public remains outraged over this abuse, many industry officials continue to claim that that McConnell is an exception, not the rule. How can this be when several show judges, board members of TWH organizations, and an astounding number of trainers, have histories of violating the Horse Protection Act? Soring has been a well-kept dirty secret in this industry and it’s time for this nonsense to end. |
source
| Zitat: |
| With a roll of the drums, in the May 21, 2012 issue of the “Walking Horse Report” a grand total of approximately 1,685 violations could be attributed to persons shown in either editorial or advertising content. Understand, one trainer with 41 total violations was shown four different times but you get the drift. |
source
ON TWHBEA (the registry)
| Zitat: |
TENNESSEE WALKING HORSE BREEDERS & EXIBITORS ASSOCIATION
BOARD OF DIRECTORS
President Marty Irby, Murfreesboro, Tenn. – 1 Violation
... Sr. Vice President Margo Urad, Rockwall, Texas – 1 Violation
Equine Welfare Vice President Dr. Linda Montgomery, Hurtsboro, Ala. – 1 Violation
Training Vice President Wayne Dean, Lewisburg, Tenn. – 5 Violations
Secretary Alie Napier, Shelbyville, Tenn. – 1 Violation
At-Large Directors:
Curtis Rosemann, Cave Creek, Ariz. – 2 Violations
David Mullins, Good Hope, Ga. – 1 Violations
Sam Sorrell, Lexington, Ky. – 1 Violations
Robert Stannard, Lebanon, Ky. – 1 Violations
Ronnie Vincent, Lexington, Ky. – 2 Violations
Darden Gladney, Homer, La. – 3 Violations
Tom Kakassy, Gastonia, N.C. – 4 Violations
Ronald Mosley, Mt. Airy, N.C. – 7 Violations
Sally Fleck, Shelbyville, Tenn. – 5 Violations
Ty Irby, Shelbyville, Tenn. – 6 Violations
Nancy Groover, Longview, Texas – 2 Violations
Ann King, Kaufman, Texas – 2 Violations
Sandra Hankins, Tazewell, Va. – 3 Violations
Russell W. Keyser, Wemding, Germany. - 2 Violations
Total: 50 Violations of the Horse Protection Act |
Dieser Beitrag wurde 1 mal editiert, zum letzten Mal von Oscar: 08.06.2012 20:18.
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08.06.2012 09:19 |
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rivera
Dabei seit: 07.10.2007
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08.06.2012 11:22 |
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rivera
Dabei seit: 07.10.2007
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I dont think it is about daring - not here in Germany.
maybe just the feeling it has nothing to do with us?
I dont know, I just hope all this leads to a better life for the horses.
__________________
Mangalarga Marchadores - Gangpferdevergnügen ohne Grenzen.
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12.06.2012 22:26 |
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Bylgia
Reitpferd
Dabei seit: 08.10.2007
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Not at all, but...I simply feel that I do not know enough about this industry/persons to really offer some useful comments.
Of course it's not o.k. to "kill" the messenger!
But - sadly as it is - it's convenient and quite normal to do so.
But this does not mean, that I do not appreciate the infos!
Since I'm not at facebook.
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12.06.2012 23:23 |
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Flair
Jungpferd
Dabei seit: 28.08.2008
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It's as if torturers examine and judge the work of other torturers and they nearly get to tears when they can watch how the beautiful beast "walks" in agony and pain with it's legs swaying from side to side as if beeing a poor caricature of itself! How sick is that! What makes them blind by heart and soul? Money? Too easy answer! It's the feeling of beeing admired, of beeing a star among stars the same strong feeling that makes women torture their own bodies with lips like rubber boats and pumped up tits which would even make a female elephant cry out in pain! It pains me to say so but they "only" destroy themselves, their own bodies and souls but these guys destroy other creatures for their abnormal ambitions. So much easier to let someone else suffer!
It has absolutely something to do with us! We also have to get away from the desire for spectacular movements that are forced by torture instruments like sharp bits, hard hands and bloody spures in every horse discipline.
Remember Totilas? Remember Sweden and the western form of hyperflexation? Remember your last horse-show where you could watch horses with painfull flexed backs but a nice action on the frontlegs? It's hard to accept that you have to do without spectacular movements if you don't want to make your horse helpless and sick.
We all should come back to natural movements in every way!
It's a hard long way to work your horse as sound for body and soul as possible and still get the outmost of performance. Then riding becomes art, like dancing! But you have to be the most patient with your horse and the most critical with yourself, who can stand that?
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12.06.2012 23:36 |
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Bylgia
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@Flair: Yes, maybe riding should be like an art.
But I also do think, that just a handful of riders do have the ability to reach that point, where you really can think of riding as an art.
But you can't just forbid all the other riders (including myself) to ride.
So maybe a compromise is more realistic.
But back to the front leg movements.
Why does someone wish for a horse with that kind of movement?
Just some thoughts of mine ( they can also be wrong 
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Since the market/prices for horses do suggest, that there ist a correlation between frontleg movement and saleability..and even if people say "no, frontleg movement is not important" most will still buy a horse with exactly that ?
Since we are social beings we wish to be acknowledged by our society/group/friends. The more positiv feedback we get, the "higher" is our social ranking. The more we adapt to a group, the more we belong
To get more positiv feedback than your neighbor, first you have to attract attention.
-> this can be done by a expensive car, or a horse which is "better" than those of your friends.
One way that your horse is better, is by striving toward "riding as an art".
..but until you've got something to present that is spectacular enough (if ever), there is going to be a long, long time with "no obvious" results one can show.
Also to what exactly is the "right way", there is a lot of room for interpretations.
And it's not exactly an easy way...
Since humans tend to go the easier way -> height of front leg movement.
Thats quite a clear criterium how to judge a horse (as clear as with jumping: either the bar fell or not, either it is within time-limits or not).
And the nice thing is - even if you can't ride very good, with enough tack/trainers, the horse will show it's movement even if your riding it.
And high leg movement is also something you can breed your horses for (-> even easier and requires no "work" from the rider).
So.... now let's say... what do you get, when you have a nice horse. No special colour, no special pedigree, no special gaites/leg movement, no special training?
Well, there are the other people in your barn (since most people do not have their horses at home, I guess?). They (maybe unconsciously) summarize:
-> not enough money to buy, what's desirable -> less social standing than they themself have
-> not willing to adapt to the "group" -> not very well received by others.
-> you've got no ideal what's desirable -> need to reform you
So what can one do with this "wrong" horse?
- buy tack (no work)
- pay trainers (no work for oneself -> get's positiv feedback, that one is belonging to a group)
- or resist (-> social pressure)
and that goes back in one big loop to the beginning.
Cookies for all who had the patience to read this 
(....now I have to get back to learn for my exams...)
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14.06.2012 11:25 |
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Flair
Jungpferd
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Oh, my Dear!
Never ever would I forbid you to ride!! No, that wasn't my intention at all and I wish you could see my friendly and agreeing grin to your comment. You expressed yourself perfectly and you weren't let by the same sarcasm as I was.
Great! I agree to every single word and take my hat off to you!
I'm not in the position to forbid people to ride, but in my eyes the biggest sin of human kind is to stop thinking and not to bring old habits into question. Not to keep a more watchful and in the same way more humorous eye on one-self and one's own doing.
Well, surely I'm also one of these riders who is still trying to ride and who is still far from producing art on horseback! I only wanted to express : it's such a hard work to come to it so, how about becoming a bit more moderate in achieving our dreams that might help us not to hurt others.
You described exactly (and in much better words than I did) what I meant with the "strong feeling" : the desire of beeing loved and accepted by your social group, which makes some of us are even willing to destroy our own bodies for! How much easier to destroy a horse for it.
To know about this coherences doesn't make it easier to act in the "right way", but it increases your chances to do so. Yes, you are right "What is the right way?"
Talking about it, thinking about it could help to get near it...to exchange our thoughts and feelings as we do...
My most beloved word is empathy. It might be one of the keys to it.
I ask myself: when every creature wants to live in peace and unharmed, so would I feel okey beeing on the other side of the rein or saddle? Would I want to be treated the way I treat my horse? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.. and the more often I can say yes, my chances are getting better to find "the right way" - ..sometimes..somewhere...and even if I fail...at least-I tried.
(Psst...and if we don't come back to the TWHs, they order us to open a new thread.....
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14.06.2012 15:24 |
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Oscar
Absetzer
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Themenstarter
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Looks like are really taking of in the US.
| Zitat: |
| The Humane Society of the United States and Humane Society Veterinary Medical Association applaud and join the call by two of the nation’s largest veterinary groups for a ban on the use of action devices and performance packages in the training and showing of Tennessee Walking Horses. |
http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_...ban_061412.html
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15.06.2012 16:30 |
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Oscar
Absetzer
Dabei seit: 15.08.2008
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Themenstarter
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| Zitat: |
Original von rivera
what about the numbers you are hinting at? |
Any clue who judged at the 2012 German Championship organized by the Bader-Keyser family?
Tommy Loid 1 violation
Marty Irby 1 violation
Joel Weaver 8 violations
Would you feel comfortable being judged by people with a history of abuse?
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22.06.2012 18:16 |
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Ich bin sicher, auch hier wird wieder niemand aus der Walkerszene posten.
Mich überrascht es nicht, es ist nicht das erste Mal, dass die Richter HPA suspensions hatten.
Vom Gastgeber einmal ganz abgesehen....
Ich würde mich nicht einem Richter in einer Prüfung vorstellen, der wegen tierschutzrechtlicher Vergehen (hier: soring) verurteil wurde.
Marty Irby ist übrigens der oberste "Boss" der TWHBEA, des Amerikanischen Zuchtverbandes.
Diese Tatsache finde ich persönlich auch bezeichnend.
__________________
Carolin Klaus
www.brandywalker.de
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22.06.2012 18:48 |
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rivera
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22.06.2012 19:37 |
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Sanni
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Wieso? Hier haben doch schon einige Walker-Leute gepostet. Ich persönlich tue mich etwas schwer mit den langen englischen Texten.
__________________
Ein gutes Pferd ist wie ein guter Wein. Beide müssen langsam reifen! 
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23.06.2012 09:27 |
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rivera
Dabei seit: 07.10.2007
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any violation is too much, let alone several. and a conviction for a violation is just a part of the violations that have been done. cant stand to think about it.
__________________
Mangalarga Marchadores - Gangpferdevergnügen ohne Grenzen.
Meine Homepage:
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23.06.2012 11:37 |
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Funny_Girl
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My English is not good - I beg your pardon
This animal abuse has to stop immediately!
But: I think recrimination (on internet platforms) is not the right way, but rather factual discussion - in regard to the European TWH scene.
Fact is, the violations had happened, the time can`t turn back. For the future it is extremlyx important to reveal the people that there`s another way without violations. To show the persons in charge that good gaits can get on the naturally way!
On German/European Shows the horses gaits are naturally - it shows the US judges that there`s another way to train horses!
And I think conversation between the different organisations is very important!
In my opinion it is the only way to change the way of looking at things.
Reproaches are obstructive and will widen the gap as much as more.
__________________
Ich brauche Luft, um zu atmen, brauch zum leben Musik; ich brauche dich, um zu lieben, einen Gott brauch ich nicht...
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24.06.2012 19:38 |
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Funny_Girl
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Irgendwie kann ich es auf Englisch nicht so ausdrücken,wie ich es gerne hätte... 
Ganz klar, dass diese Tierquälerei ein Ende haben muss und zwar besser gestern als heute.
Aber sich jetzt nur in Schuldzuweisungen zu ergehen, löst m. E. das Problem nicht.
Dass Leute, die sich schon mal des Soring etc schuldig gemacht haben, unter Beobachtung stehen sollten, ist klar, aber es bringt nichts, ewig auf der Vergangenheit rumzureiten.
Ich denke, dass Gespräche zwischen den Organsisationen unabdingbar sind, um für die Zukunft eine Basis zu schaffen, damit die europäische TWH-Szene nicht in zwei Lager gespalten wird.
Zudem denke ich, dass man klar unterscheiden sollte, was die Registry für die Walker betrifft und was die Turnierszene.
Ein Züchter sollte seine Pferde nicht schlechter eintragen lassen müssen, weil man ihm sonst unterstellt, mit seiner Registry bei der TWHBEA die Tierquälereien auf den US-Turnieren zu unterstützen.
Der Vergleich hinkt zwar, aber um einen Equidenpass für mein (ausländisches) Pferd zu bekommen, muss ich Geld an die FN bezahlen - und die FN erlaubt die tierquälerische Rollkur.
__________________
Ich brauche Luft, um zu atmen, brauch zum leben Musik; ich brauche dich, um zu lieben, einen Gott brauch ich nicht...
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25.06.2012 19:21 |
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rivera
Dabei seit: 07.10.2007
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oscar schrieb von german championship - also ein turnier, keine registry, oder? dem stellt man sich freiwillig.
und leider ist es nicht vergangenheit, über die hier geredet wird, sondern knallharte gegenwart. nur öffentlichkeit wird hier überhaupt etwas verändern, denke ich.
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25.06.2012 22:48 |
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